Halachic Cool
A huge shout out to Z and her fine post, with a fine title, Halachically Illegitimate (wish I'd thought of it! heh.). A great companion piece to the one below.
The social scientist in me can't help but wonder things, like, why is it that converts need to be caught in the crossfire in the ideological warfare between Jews? In my experience, people are not necessarily sensitive to converts, either, no matter what Torah and halacha say. In fact, some people think that converts have no right to criticise what occurs among Jews, or even think. I find converts are an easy target. From a psychoanalytic standpoint, it's comforting to place a red string around our respective or collective necks and send us off into the wilderness.
But I also think that converts stand at the fulcrum of our internecine wars, and Jewish identity. Whither go the converts, so goes the Jewish people. Because how you treat a convert affiliated with whichever stream, shows what defines you as a Jew (and that goes for converts, too); more importantly, it shows what you feel and think about other Jews who are not like you. And so, it predicts for you the future of the Jewish people- united or wretched or confused or stuck or dead, or disappeared from the face of the earth.
Perusing the J-blogs yesterday, I came across a comment from someone who said he would never marry anyone who is a convert other than one who is Orthodox. He felt that Orthodoxy was the only way to churn out legitimate Jewry. And, by the way, he stressed that he was secular. So, I wonder, what does Orthodoxy represent to him? I'm thinking, legitimacy. Ethnic legitimacy.
Moreover, in discussing The Law of Return, it became clear that for some, Orthodox conversion is viewed as a way to confer citizenship, never mind, the only way. There is no mention of religion, merely of conversion as a mechanism. And only one mechanism is the legitimate mechanism. The fact that people convert to any religion because they believe and experience certain things does not seem to enter into the equation.
It would be hypocritical to convert in a manner not consistent with one's beliefs, conscience, and sense of integrity. Or to attach oneself to something for the sake of acceptance and validation. I wouldn't want a new Jew like that. Yet this is something that is completely dismissed by the front for tribal triumphalism- bigotry, by any other name. Belief doesn't enter into it. Even if you don't believe in Torah miSinai (that Torah and Oral Torah are directly from G-d), implicitly, that is not the issue. Acceptance of and submission to a lifestyle is paramount. If you do not accept/submit, then you cannot become a Jew. Which means that similarly, the only thing left for born Jews, many of whom do not believe in Torah miSinai, nor accept/submit to the Orthodox lifestyle, is their legitimacy through ethnicity- that they were born to a Jewish mother.
So what do some Jews do in order to determine which potential converts will accept/submit? They turn the conversion process into an elitist boot camp. Make it tough. Survival is paramount. Ya gotta be nail-hard to be a Jew. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Weed out the religious wimps because halacha is tough even though we don't necessarily follow it ourselves, because after all Jews are flawed human beings like anyone else. But of course, converts have to be superhuman. Even if they are only looking for a home and not barracks.
I found this swaggering stance surprisingly prevalent among some young, hip Orthodox adults on the net who hope to bring tender, disaffected or uninformed, impressionable young Jews into the fold. You know, show them a good time, bring them home, feed them, turn them on to new music, party with them, show them that being a Jew can be a happenin' contemporaneous experience, that it's cool to be a Jew. This explains to me why some males have taken to wearing baseball caps instead of kippot. How that shows reverence for G-d I don't know, but I guess you could call it Jewish cool.
When challenged about tzniut (modesty) in posting decidedly untzniut-like pictures (and you don't have to be Jewish to find them offensive), the response was surprising. I naïvely was under the impression that if you publicly assert and support Orthodoxy (or are any kind of religiously devout Jew), then the obvious answer to posting soft porn on a website is a no-brainer- you comport yourself with modesty. This was halacha that the posters chose to transgress, for reasons I don't get, unless coolness supersedes halacha.
Orthodoxy for some of the young and passionate, it seems, has become a way to affiliate with a weighty tradition, that to them, confers cultural and ethnic identity and, especially, status. (Kinda like O is 'Boston old money' v non-O, the 'nouveau riche', and the 'carpetbaggers'.) All this, without addressing the religious work or the roots of Jewishness which are religious. Just like our secular Jew. Or addressing it on their own terms, in choosing which mitzvot to work on, just like non-Orthodox Jews, yet without giving up the perceived status. Where religion and peoplehood have become mutually exclusive, and where, when push comes to shove, ethnicity supersedes religion. You don't have to go to a good school to be elitist any longer. Nor really be devoted. Just religiously civilised. The Diaspora cuts deep.
They will shoot from the hip: "I think you're a nice person and all and I would invite you for Shabbat, no sweat, but I won't marry you because your rabbis don't agree with mine". As if that were logical, and not subject to challenge. And as if that is kind or thoughtfully presented. If they get really pissed they will say, who cares about how religious you are, you haven't passed the tribal test, to which my rabbis, who happen to be Orthodox, hold the key. In other words, you don't possess the pedigree. Can you produce papers?
What is our future? It seems that in terms of some young Orthodox, not much has changed except perhaps the stance- very macho (and really amazingly foulmouthed). Yet, for all their fine words, and desire to unite all Jews, they continue to be enamoured of an era 200 years ago, when Judaism became changed and institutionalised in a new way, but not for their forebearers. It also resembles the unconscious stance of survivors of war.
What I see is transgenerational fear and transgenerational fantasy, none of it original. It happens all the time, in the young and in the more mature. And when in doubt, show the converts how tough you are. It's more punk than cool. And more bigoted than authentic. Rather disappointing; I was hoping for...well, hope. Meanwhile, is that a red string I see before me?
I certainly don't see all of Orthodoxy in that light. After all, some of my best friends are Orthodox. Still, those described above have some influence and they may be some of our future leaders. I'm only hoping that there will be substance behind the seduction. A novel substance, removed from transgenerational obsession with survival. A substance that desires to be something fresh and new. That truly has a shot at unity, because oneness is what matters more than all the differences and hierarchies. I think that takes imaginative genius, released from the past, like an arrow, released from its bow. A genius of the humble sort. Now that would be really cool.
19 Comments:
Excellent and intelligent post.
Actually, converts are more often than not more devoted and dedicated Jews than some born into the relgion. I will bet you that it is the same narrow minded group of people who berate and create a negative environment for traditional or secular Jews who are saying that they would not marry a convert.
We are a small group as it is. If people desire to convert, embrace the principles of the Torah and all the commandments and prohbitions that the religion requires, in a strict halacha sense, then who is to judge that they should not be accepted, and even embraced.
God embraces coverts. This is really all that matters.
I love your writing, barefoot Jewess, and am often comforted by your insight and intelligence. I cannot sleep tonight (posted about it on my blog) and am happy to have found this fantastic post.
Be well.
Wonderful post - now why would you ever think it might be a touchy subject? I find that whole culture of elitism to be completely offensive. I actually was talking to someone last night who is considering a C conversion and I found myself JUSTIFYING that mine was JUST as vigorous as ANY C conversion. Later I wondered why I did that...and why did I even care what SHE thought.
Funny, if I had never ventured beyond the boundaries of my community, I'd never feel this way. The small yet insidious poison of that small O community online of which you speak is incredibly venomous.
Additionally, I find it absolutely laughable that they strut their "pedigree" while parading the fact that they don't observe the mitzvot as stringently as they feel YOU should. The "pedigree" allows for lax observance whereas "paper" Jews (converts) have NO excuse and are held to much higher standards. This just isn't fair.
I'd have no problem at ALL if they walked the walk as well as talked the talk. But to parade their cafeteria Judaism across the net and tacitly okay what they consider "halachically legitimate" Jews who are equally as lax in their observance while vehemently condemning "the other" who is stringently observant is just wrong.
I followed the (broken) link to your blog from the J*ous blog. I am not sure why it is bad protocol to mention their name but I'll follow everyone's lead. You're right on, but frankly why do you bother? It is impossible to argue points of halacha with Orthodox jews because they are not able to break out of what they are told by their rabbis. There is no capacity for individual thought. That is the entire point of the shayla/posek structure. And their rabbis are in reaction mode right now, regardless of whether they are right or wrong. To me this is the same futile fight that the gay Orthodox are fighting... They can try to cite halacha all day and all night but in the end, they will never convince the community that gay Orthodox jews should be accepted in any way.
PS My wife re-converted through an Orthodox Beis Din after about a year of devastating heartache for the whole family that almost destroyed our marriage. Arguments, either logical or emotional, are futile. It all comes down to utilitarian reasons.
e-kvetcher. Thanks so much for your response! Hey, I like to get my licks in! :)
Actually, I've been confused for a long while by what people espouse, like the unity of the Jewish people, and how they really behave and really think.
My writing has more to do with sorting it out for myself till I reach clarity. Also, I believe that I am not the only one seduced/confused. Perhaps it may enlighten someone passing through. That's all.
I so appreciate an additional point of view from someone else in the trenches. I am sorry that your experience was so heartbreaking. ALL Jews suffer because of stuff like this.
"Utilitarian"? Perfect capture!
Barefoot Jewess, You did it again. Great post. I think you're right on about a lot of young O Jews. However, I also think we need to recognize those are the young and immature ones that are doing this kind of stuff. It's been said that adolescence is a self-limiting personality disorder, and in our society now it lasts until age 25-30 or more, since our professional roles are not usually mature until then.
As I reflect on the issue of Jewish converts I am amazed at the absurdity of the present situation. The last time that Jews were looked upon as worthy of emulation was 2K years ago. In all major Diaspora communities there were strata of what were called "G-d Fearers", namely Gentiles that went to synagogue and essentially followed the Jewish lifestyle. A good portion of these people would convert as well.
Then for two thousand years, Jews were vilified, persecuted, denigrated. The notion of a European or an Arab converting to Judaism was absurd. (yes there were statistically insignificant anomalies)
Now, after two millenia, we find people (still no Europeans or Arabs) that are interested in emulating Jews. You'd think that it would be looked upon as a blessing.
PS You gotta stop hanging out over at Jewlicious. It's a moshav leitzim. Not good for the soul.
sechel,
Immaturity is something I think, but don't say. The events at Jewlicious triggered my posts after much thought, but it is not all about Jewlicious, though Jewlicious does exemplify it. "Adolescence is a self-limiting personality disorder"- heh! So true. But I did not think it extended that far in age! Well, you learn something new every day.
I had stopped visiting Jewlicious but then took a peek and went nuclear. Not my finest hour, in style. You are so right, it is not good for the soul. Thanks for pointing it out. I'm still left with a lot of bad feelings.
The encounter did bring clarity for me though and I really needed clarity. I was naive.
sechel,
I looked up moshav leitzim, a "company of scorners/clowns". I didn't remember that in Pirkei Avot! I found a fabulous discourse on it here:
http://www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter3-3.html
Talking about bringing clarity! Wow! How apt. And a great new Jewish concept for me.
This especially hit home:
" "Leitz" is a very strong term in the language of both Scriptures and the Sages. Literally translated, it means something like a joker, but the connotation is far more negative. (In modern Hebrew a "leitzan" is a clown.) It implies someone who laughs but does not laugh in humor but in derision. He scoffs; he laughs because he does not want to take life seriously. He ridicules serious issues. He laughs off criticism and cannot be held down to serious discussion about life and religion. His humor is inappropriate; he uses it as a protective shield against taking life seriously....
In Proverbs King Solomon warns us, "Do not reprimand a leitz lest he hate you" (Mishle 9:8). Such a person is beyond cure and beyond repentance. You can tell him whatever you want -- all the wise words and constructive criticism you can muster, but the first spark of contemplation must come from within. You can fan the flames, but only his own reflection can ignite the fires of conscience. And such a person will brush off all your attempts at reason with a joke. He will use humor to escape reality rather than to liven it, and he will only resent your attempt at penetrating his protective barrier."
Yes, moshav leitzim. I see it now. Thank you. And it is not an environment good for the soul at all. This is a revelation to me. Thank you.
(I'll be posting something about it at some point. This is good stuff for people to know!)
e-kvetcher. An interesting snippet of Jewish history. Thanks!
Now, after two millenia, we find people (still no Europeans or Arabs) that are interested in emulating Jews. You'd think that it would be looked upon as a blessing.
Well, bless you for saying that. In my experience, one on one, in real life, people have largely been kind (there is the occasional nasty one), and sensitive. They tentatively ask me what the attraction is, if I don't mind telling them. They are quite curious. It helps them see the whole thing in a fresh light, perhaps.
Converts, at first, seem like aliens, truly strangers. I think some people feel ambivalent, until they get to know us. It is usually an open secret in terms of who is a convert; news spreads quickly. That part was particularly difficult for me.
From the beginning, I was sincere, I was involved, I was passionate, I became part of a community that I loved, and heavily involved in pretty well every aspect of it. Later, I was invited to join the board of the shul and things went on from there. I think that when your sincerity and passion show in your behaviour, after a while, those who get to know you, forget that you were a stranger. Of course, it was a community that wasn't hugely into judgment and appearances, or else I missed those people.
I'll never forget, after I came out of the mikvah, one of the mikvah ladies came up to me to congratulate me and said: "You bring to us a Jewish soul and we need Jewish souls. And you bring to us, a knowledge of treasure."
Z,
Well, we've discussed it before. It can be so demoralising. I'm glad it's not distressing you.
Barbara,
Thanks so much. Your comment warmed my heart. Wading through a sea of Jews can be arduous :).
There are double standards with born Jews and converts. I think there should be: converts go to a community and ask something of them. In a certain way, I see myself as indebted to the people who, out of goodness and in trust, have embraced me (the once stranger) and made me family. Born Jews didn't ask to be born that way, regardless of their level of observance. So it's a little different when they're secular or go off the derekh or do supposedly non-Jewish things. I had a C conversion and often contemplate an O conversion. My problem is this: I feel like the dog at the circus jumping through hoops but the hoop-holders can't agree on whether or not they're holding real hoops. They all look real to me, but I'm just the dog. :) Even if I did an O conversion there are still O rabbis who would not recognize its validity. Jews are notorious for not agreeing and this is part of what I love about Judaism. But it also makes me realize that I can't get my identity (Jewish or otherwise) from outside. Pleasing others won't make me feel more real.
I (respectfully) disagree with this idea that O jews don't think for themselves. It's in O shuls where rabbis are sometimes told to sit down and shut up during heated debates because other members of the community are also extremely knowledgable and the rabbi's word is not the be all and end all. It's a sign of an extremely healthy community when lay people have an excellent Jewish education and make informed decisions about how they want to live. Sadly, when I first converted, I heard a ton of loshon hara about O Jews and for a long time this kept me away from exploring another, equally valuable way of living a Jewish life. I'm definitely not O, but I've taken bits and pieces of that world with me. I think what the O are arguing for with stringency in conversion is that the person get a more complete picture of judaism-and then make their decisions from there. When I converted I was not told, for example, that halakhically once I dip in the mikveh, Abraham becomes my father and Sara my mother. yes, it's a spiritual father and mother but it says something about the power of what I'm doing and the fact that my destiny will change and I must cling to my people and the shared destiny of my people. I would never tell my mother that this is the halakhah-it would be to slap her face. Ultimately, jewishness comes from within. It has to, because there will never be universal agreement. (did you hear about the woman who was converted by the head sephardic rabbi in israel a number of years ago and one of the conditions of her conversion was that it was only valid if she remained in israel?! meshuganeh! It doesn't work like that and we all know it.)
p.s. barefoot, I love your stuff, it's always thoughtful and careful and honest and even though I don't always agree I think you're wonderful.
Shosh wrote:
I (respectfully) disagree with this idea that O jews don't think for themselves. It's in O shuls where rabbis are sometimes told to sit down and shut up during heated debates because other members of the community are also extremely knowledgable and the rabbi's word is not the be all and end all.
I meant specifically that O jews are bound by the halachic process much tighter than any contemporary Jewish movement. So even if a rabbi maybe told to sit down and shut up, that heated debate probably did not involve matters of halacha. I am not versed enough in the details of the halachic decision process, but clearly being a rabbi of significant standing is a prerequisite.
Shosh wrote:
I (respectfully) disagree with this idea that O jews don't think for themselves. It's in O shuls where rabbis are sometimes told to sit down and shut up during heated debates because other members of the community are also extremely knowledgable and the rabbi's word is not the be all and end all.
I meant specifically that O jews are bound by the halachic process much tighter than any contemporary Jewish movement. So even if a rabbi maybe told to sit down and shut up, that heated debate probably did not involve matters of halacha. I am not versed enough in the details of the halachic decision process, but clearly being a rabbi of significant standing is a prerequisite.
poskim are different from a congregational rabbi. And depending on the posek, O jews may or may not agree with the decision. I've noticed that O rabbi's aren't really viewed as elevated and their opinions aren't held in higher regard although their particular skill at couselling through private issues and stuff may be very valued. An ordinary (albeit well-educated) O Jew will definitely debate halakah with a rabbi, I've seen it done. And I've seen O rabbis concede the halakhic points of their congregants. You're definitely right that ultimately things come down to halakhah for O jews and they're bound to it in that way, but halakhah is a flexible, living thing.
There are double standards with born Jews and converts. I think there should be: converts go to a community and ask something of them. In a certain way, I see myself as indebted to the people who, out of goodness and in trust, have embraced me (the once stranger) and made me family.
I think each convert must get something different out of it and perceive things differently. In my case, I fail to see "them" and "me", all I see is us. However, I have learned that for some, this distinction does occur. I joined the community wanting to contribute and feeling that I had something to offer. I felt it was my family, one with whom I have a love-hate relationship, but one to which I feel deeply connected, nevertheless.
I don't think it's about standards, double or otherwise, but about beliefs, attitudes, and the level of comfort one feels as a Jew; standards can be symptomatic. I think that for people comfortable in their own skin, who see more to life than just survival, most distinctions are not going to matter, and standards will be fair and moderate, and people will be welcoming.
Yeah, people don't ask to be born Jews. But I wouldn't describe it as a special hardship to be born Jewish. What is hard, however, is dealing with the after-effects of the Shoah, especially the transmission of intergenerational trauma. It explains, for me, the almost insane emphasis on survival to the exclusion of everything else, and a lifestyle devoted only to survival as if a war were still on.
Young people are vulnerable to it.
Thank you for your kind words!
I think what the O are arguing for with stringency in conversion is that the person get a more complete picture of judaism-and then make their decisions from there.
That's a huge presumption right there. Shosh, do you really think this is worth pursuing when we largely offer only anecdotal evidence? Just because you feel your grounding wasn't thorough, doesn't mean it wasn't in other cases. Mine was thorough, partially because I read a lot on my own, and like you, I was open to all movements and took from all of them.
I certainly wouldn't blame an entire movement for leaving me in ignorance about something.
In fact, at one point R, O and R did meet about standardising conversion requirements, creating a community Beit Din, but O pulled out. I don't want to get into arguments about what happened, or stringencies, because perceptions differ about what is deemed enough and thorough enough, and just, enough. It really is not about stringencies, imo. It is about ideology. I'm really impressed that they got as far as they did.
I am suspending comments because the latest comments are drastically veering away from addressing the original article and its intent.
This comment was posted below. I am letting it stand, even though it does not address the points made in the original post here.
But this is the last comment. There are so many things that I could argue about this
that it would take me days. Clearly, we are not gonna be on the same page about this. If anyone from the largely unnamed blog or anyone else wants to continue this, please do it somewhere else unless you want to reach some mutual rapprochement about it via email. This kind of stuff is bound to be inflammatory, and does not mitigate anything, although I can relate to the hurt behind it. No, I do not think that discussion is crucial when it becomes a flame war. It is best to disengage. The relevant post here is my last word on the topic, and one I needed to figure out, on my blog, which is a personal one.
I'm still going to write on mochav leitzim, something I see all over the net, especially with younger folk. Wow, such a fabulous concept, understood by our sages so many centuries ago. It is derision gone mainstream acceptable. Like snark. And on my blog, I get the last word.
Please do not post comments below that have nothing to do with the topic at hand, or else they will be deleted.
One last thing. To be fair to TM, he has often been the voice of moderation on his blog. And so has Esther, who has been the voice of wisdom and exemplifies ahavat yisrael. In my opinion.
TM (Jewlicious) said...
I have to post in here because the relevant post was blocked to comments. I apologize.
I'm a little offended by the term moshav leitzim (or is it leitzanim?) that was used to describe Jewlicious.
We have a lot of posters and a lot of commenters, and we don't assert control over anybody's comments or posts. It seems to me that you get a diversity of people and comments, some foolish, and some quite intelligent and worthwhile (no, not by me, by others).
In your visits to us, Barefoot, like any poster or commenter, you were welcome to comment as often and as long as you liked. In fact, I remember asking you to return to our site because I believe(d) your voice is/was an important one in all discussions, but especially the one involving converts and different streams of Judaism.
I am the one who put up that post about Conservative Judaism, and it was done because there has been a great deal of negativity in our discussions at Jewlicious surrounding the topic of faith.
You will note that we have Orthodox posters who claim they are always under siege on our site, and if nothing else, that should indicate to you that the discussions do not have a bias in any given direction.
I think what we do have are honest discussions. Your debate with and anger at ck came out openly, and he respectfully attempted to respond to you. As e-kvetcher pointed out in your discussion, and as I pointed out in the Jewlicious discussion, there are simply things that a priori are expected by those who are Orthodox. That may not be fair and it may offend you, but it is a clear part of the world of Judaism today. Would you rather it remain hidden and unsaid? Or would you rather that a platform exist where people can voice their opinions and have others challenge them?
Isn't it better that you have argued with ck than to have remained silent? Don't you think the discussion itself is crucial?
I do.
We don't have an agenda at Jewlicious other than to have an interesting Judaism and Israel oriented discussion going on. That's it. We try to have fun, and sometimes we are serious. Sometimes the writing and discussion is of high quality, and sometimes it isn't.
You don't like the photos of women that are untzniut-like? Okay, but some of us there are secular and reject the idea that religion should dictate our dress. That's reflected in the site. You don't like the Orthodox posters who reject you as a Jew? Fine, but there are those of us, including myself, who have fought for your right to be considered fully Jewish. That's been reflected on our site in numerous discussions. You don't think that people like ck should be leading Birthright tours? Fine, you were able to voice that on a site he founded and your comment was posted without censorship. If anything, he tried to politely mollify your anger, even if you do reject his claims.
You are a more devout Jew than I, so I won't insult you by giving a speech about lashon ha'ra. However, with all due respect, at no point did any of the posters at Jewlicious act or treat you as if it's a moshav leitzim. You don't want to visit us? That's a shame, because your contributions were interesting and valuable. But how about at least treating us with the respect with which you were treated?
TM
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